Thursday 19 September 2019

Proof Remainers Are Layabouts And Loafers



I follow a lot of leavers on Twitter.  I like hearing opinions that differ from mine.  It can be a tedious business though.  You read the same thing a lot and see the same things being shared and discussed.  Remainers are much the same.  Both sides have a set of core beliefs and ideas that they enjoy talking about.  Sweeping generalisations about the shortcomings of the people who you disagree with are a popular trope with both camps.


But it isn't completely symmetrical.  Remainers talk a lot more about Brexit, their experiences of it and their commentary on how badly it is all going.  Leavers are more into identity as being British, or sometimes some other nationality in solidarity with the British, and are more concerned about democracy and a set of other things they think are wrong with the country.  But above all they seem to be tremendously hard done by.  They seem convinced that they are being despised and patronised by the other side.   I have to say I have not really noticed any great trend amongst remainers on Twitter to be especially dismissive of leavers.  There's a bit of it, but not a lot.  And I am very careful not to write anything abusive (today excepted).

So I wondered what the reaction would be if I actually behaved in the way that that remainers are so often accused by leavers of so doing?  So I popped a tweet up asking if leavers on Twitter had proper jobs.  I thought it might get a reaction from the leavers I often interact with.  And I was right.   But it was obviously even more appealing than I was expecting and I was soon getting replies and retweets way in excess of what I usually get.

In fact 5 hours later I am still getting responses by the minute.  Lots of them are very abusive - it has kept me chuckling all morning.  There are many from people claiming highly impressive CVs.  These are often bundled with a question as to whether my occupation can compare.  Others assume I am either an academic or a student, or that I am in some way supported by their taxes.  (I actually run my own business that sells all around the world and receive no public support - though I don't think that makes my opinion any more or less valid than other people's.)

The responses were educational.  This is obviously a touchy subject for leavers. The demographics are clear in the polling. Leave is popular with the older voter.  It is also an everyday experience for most of us. If someone has grey hair the chances are much greater that they back the British exit from the European project.  Younger people can more or less be assumed to be remainers.   For those of us who value EU membership it is a constant source of encouragement to think that whatever happens in the short run there is not much doubt that sooner or later, and probably sooner, the UK will be back in.  It must be much more uncomfortable for leavers.

I think this is why they are so keen on the trope that the working class is supposed to be more Brexit friendly than the middle classes.  Unlike the age thing this one really isn't borne out in day to day experience.   The polling just about supports the notion - though the difference between classes as defined by the pollsters is only a couple of percent.  But there are so many counter-examples that it doesn't really stand up.  My very working class family splits totally on age.  The under 50s are for remain.  The over 50s break about evenly for either side.  It's hard to explain how Liverpool voted remain and Chichester voted leave if class was the main factor.  That's without even mentioning Scotland.

And of course one of the consequences of the strong relationship between age and voting leave is that a large cohort of the leave vote is retired and so doesn't have a job.   If you look at the current workforce they are younger than the population on average and so as you'd expect they are predominately remainers.

Just after the referendum Daniel Hannan said that the referendum result was the triumph of the working classes over the smirking classes.  It was a neat play on words, but not really accurate given that most people actually doing work right now would have voted remain.  It's a great pity that the english word 'shirking' has such negative connotations as it would otherwise have been possible to come up with a more accurate version.

But the most interesting thing was how few respondents of the hundreds that tweeted me back actually talked about the matter in hand.  Here's one of the few.


And I think this is the biggest problem.  Leavers just aren't that interested in the EU.  It's more about the kind of person they are.  Normally the solution to a disagreement is to talk it over and reach a compromise having identified the areas of concern.  But there really isn't much to talk about if the main problem the leavers have is about how they feel about themselves.

3 comments:

  1. Another difference: Remainers tend to make economic arguments that are immediately understandable by foreigners. Leavers make arguments of which I understand each individual sentence, but I fail to grasp some underlying premise that would make the whole thing make sense.

    ReplyDelete
  2. A few points regarding your explanation.
    You say 'Remainers talk a lot more about Brexit, their experiences of it and their commentary on how badly it is all going. Leavers are more into identity ... democracy and a set of other things they think are wrong with the country. But above all they seem ... convinced that they are being despised and patronised by the other side. ...There's a bit of it, but not a lot.'

    Remainers talk about Brexit involves repeating things like 'the EU's brought us peace & prosperity' even when confronted with evidence that would casue any honest, intelligent person to at the v least admit, 'ok, perhaps that's not as definitive as I thought'.

    As for suggesting Leavers have a persecution complex because there's not that many derogatory comments. On that you are v much mistaken. Perhaps it's down to the people you follow but I bet you a million £s (ok, I don't have that-how about free labour for a week?), that analysis of the last 3 years tweets would show the opposite. It began immediately the result was announced. The media & politicians have in the main been just as bad. Leavers RESPONDED, but who wouldn't?

    You say, 'Lots of [responders] are very abusive - it has kept me chuckling all morning. There are many from people claiming highly impressive CVs.'

    From what I've seen the majority of responders are in work & some are, indeed, highly educated. The number of abusive tweets are thankfully limited. Given the question, pretty amazing.

    Perhaps the most ludicrous comment from you was, 'But the most interesting thing was how few respondents of the hundreds that tweeted me back actually talked about the matter in hand.'

    You use this as part of your evidence that Leavers aren't interested in Brexit.
    You silly, silly person. The matter in hand was 'Do any Leavers have a proper job?' Moreover tweets are word limited.

    Bias such as displayed by yourself is NOT conducive to understanding an issue. Try & be more objective. Do a course on research analysis. Something. Please.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your comments and I take your point that by choosing to follow so many leavers on Twitter I probably do have a biased view of the debate. It isn't really possible to get a true sample when the algorithms are trying to serve up what they think interests you. But the fact remains my very mild insult - indeed it is only an insult at all if you interpret it in a certain way - generated a huge and outraged response from twitter leavers. That doesn't suggest they get this kind of thing in their timeline very often. I hardly notice when remainers are being accused of being elitists, traitors etc etc.

      Here's the data showing that the majority of the workforce are remainers.

      https://brexitasithapppens.blogspot.com/2019/09/most-workers-are-remainers.html

      Delete

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